41. Holding space for optimism in 2025 with Molly Lee of Optimistic Soap

Post-election, we're in a year that is very concerning regarding the rights of my LGBTQ+ community. I'm trying hard to hold space for things like joy and optimism and feel stronger than ever that visibility and allyship are vital.

So, who better to have a conversation about optimism and allyship than Molly Lee, the owner of Optimistic Soap, an Asian-woman-owned business that makes and sells artisanal handcrafted soap with natural ingredients and also highlights various LGBTQ+ fundraisers through its business and products?

Optimistic Soap has witty names like Concepts of a Plan (named after a batch of soap that didn't go as planned) and includes an entire line of soaps focused on the LGBTQ+ community, like the popular Love Wins soap.   

In this episode, we talk about everything from how Optimistic Soap started to why demonstrating visible allyship is so important, especially right now, and it can start with a little thing, like soap.

Find Optimistic Soap:
www.optimisticsoap.com
On Facebook or Instagram

Instagram reels mentioned in this episode:
"Organic lesbians" reel
Birthday reel benefitting the Trevor Project

Current fundraiser:
This month (January 2025), Optimistic Soap is fundraising for Point of Pride, which offers healthcare for the trans community, including surgery and gender-affirming gear, and Sylvia Rivera Law Project, which provides free legal services to low-income trans, intersex, and gender non-conforming folx.

follow the podcast: theygaypodastforeveryone.com
Instagram: @thegaypodcast_foreveryone

Chapters

• 2:19 About Optimistic Soap
• 7:49 What is "lesbian soap"?
• 11:33 Pride soaps
• 17:54 Little things make a big difference
• 23:40 Supporting our friends and loved ones

Transcript

[00:01:53] Angela: I'm so excited to have this conversation with you, mainly because it's, we need this like kind of vibe of optimism and hope and humor. You have so much humor, you know, to start out the new year. I want to remind both of us that it's December 1st right now, but when people hear this, it will be the new year.

And, you know, it's going to be a little different. Yes. Right. And absolutely, we need optimism to get us through it. And a lot of humor. And you have so much humor in your product. But before we get into all that, if anybody listening doesn't know about Optimistic Soap, you know, you beautifully fuse this messaging of advocacy and allyship, really.

I would love to know, how did you even start to make soap? And then how did it turn into this? Yes. Yes. product of like, Hey, I want to create a message with this, with this brand. 

[00:02:40] Molly: Um. It wasn't as intentional as one might think. I'm not a grand mastermind of branding or marketing. I just show up as myself, but I probably start, I don't even know when I started making soap.

I saw a video of Martha Stewart making soap on YouTube and then I disappeared down the YouTube rabbit hole. I checked out every book I could find about soap making and I made my first unscented Uncolored, plain Jane three ingredient soap in a juice carton, you know, so you make it a paper carton that's waxy on the inside.

So that's your, that was my first moment. Then you tear it out and you have a block of soap. And like that night I went to a block party. And I was just like a five year old kid going up to my neighbor and just blurting out, I made soap today. I was so excited. It's, it's this magical alchemy. I mean, it's, it's chemistry, it's science and art and everything else.

So, anyways, I started making soap for myself, and then over time, the soap started piling up. So I started selling soap, one, to get more money so I could make more soap. That was really the primary thing. And also to get rid of the soap that was starting to pile up all over the place. So it was just a way of making this hobby pay for itself.

And then over time, I think, what was it, maybe four or five years ago, I decided to make it a real thing. And so I did the incorporation, I got a bank account, I did all the paperwork and stuff and became a real thing because I told my husband, I think we can do this, or I think it can actually make money.

So that was that next stage. And yeah, over the years, I don't know when I first started my first fundraiser, it might have been, Oh, you know, I think I did what a lot of businesses do. And like pride, you know, I did some donation to the Trevor project, you know, cause that's what businesses do to celebrate pride.

And I always donated a portion of my craft sales, my in person events to Pride. Raphael House, which is for survivors of domestic violence. But think, don't know. I think at some point I just decided, okay, let's just do a dollar per bar for every bar of soap I sell online. You know, that makes the accounting easy if I do it that way.

And then I'll just pick a fundraising focus every month and, and donate to that. And that has been nice. And people, you know, like that. So, you know, I do nice things because it makes me feel better. I mean, I genuinely feel good about myself and I do it because it's the right thing to do. And it makes me feel good about the world to do this.

But life has a funny way of, like, rewarding me for that. And so the times that I've, Oh, I did this abortion fundraiser last September that just freaking caught on fire. And I literally, prior to that, I would like post my soap for sale and I never kept track of inventory because I sold a couple bars a week.

It was hardly anything. And then that month it was like so crazy. I actually had to like go back and check my inventory and make sure, can I fulfill all these orders? I ran out of shipping supplies. I sold more in one weekend than I had sold in. That whole probably five months prior, and it was because I had promoted that I was donating a dollar per bar to abortion access, national abortion access, and somehow that got picked up, and it went viral, and I gained, like, seriously, quite a bit of money.

18, 000 followers from that one. Wow. Yeah. It's insane. I don't know what happened. I really don't. So, you know, again, life has a way of rewarding you, you know, do good things because it's the right thing to do. That's what I think everyone should be doing. I think karma has been very kind to me too, and this 

[00:06:46] Angela: little business of mine.

That's so cool that you say like it wasn't intentional, you know, it all kind of just happened. But at the same time, like you mentioned that you're just being genuine, you're just being yourself. And. Putting it out there. Cause honestly, that's the vibe I get from when I look at your reels or when I look at your social media, I'm like, this person is like really genuine about this.

That is just a, just a good vibe. You know, you have a perfect name, by the way. Optimistic soap. Was it always optimistic soap from the very beginning? It 

[00:07:17] Molly: always has been. And I picked that name just because, you know, that's who I am. I've always been. Uh, a little cheesy, Susie sunshine, you know, I'm a happy chipper person and blah, blah, blah, like annoyingly chipper.

So I picked that name because of that, but over the years, and then with more advocacy and the fundraising, it has seemed much, much more apt. And it's such a, a versatile name too. Like, send a little bit of optimism to people. 

[00:07:49] Angela: Yeah. Well, and you're also really funny. You have that reel, you have a couple of reels, I think, about your lesbian soap specifically.

I was on the floor. It was so fantastic. And I have to tell everybody, you have to go and find that reel. I'll put it in my stories once this episode comes out. But like, once you were like, no lesbians were harmed in the making of this soap. I was like, that is fantastic. Cut. I have to do. How did that come up?

Um, that is 

[00:08:16] Molly: totally the generosity of my community. Um, so I think lesbians might be the perfect Venn diagram for me, you know, LGBTQ, cause that's what I support and people who have money for soap apparently. And yeah, it's a perfect little target market. We need it for our camping trips. I had on a whim, I was on vacation.

And But I noticed that it was Lesbian Day of Recognition. You know, there's so many of these days, they're all called different things. So it's like May or something like that. And so I was on vacation and I didn't even have a video of me with the lesbian soap, but I had a video of me slicing a big slab and it was like six seconds.

And I said, Hey, do you know what this is? And I posted like six seconds of it. And the thousands of comments I got. We're extraordinary. Lots and lots and lots of people saying, Oh my God, take my money. I want it now. But also a lot of people saying things, Hey, did you get it from the long bacon store or, you know, or posting Lebanese flags.

And I am so naive, like, or, or LeBron James gifts. I could not figure out like some of them, like, what are they saying? Is this a troll? Cause sometimes, you know, people will troll me and I don't even realize it until I kind of do a little bit of research. So I'm hypersensitive to that, but, you know, so people left all these comments, things like, Oh, is this made out of organic lesbians?

So people handed me the script. I had to ask. What are you talking about? Bacon store. And people had to gently and kindly 

[00:10:03] Angela: explain to me. So that's so awesome. I think without knowing it, you really kind of, to me, it's got that Portland vibe and I know you're from Portland and the TV show, Portlandia, like, I think it's the very first episode.

It reminds me of Austin because they go to this restaurant and they have the organic food, organic chicken. Yeah. And I think his name is Kyle or something. It's like. You know, Colin, that's what it is. And they're like, we need to go visit Colin's farm. That's kind of like what the story you just reminded me of that, or the story you said just reminded me of that, of like, I've got to go research this thing and find out where it's 

[00:10:41] Molly: from.

Yeah. People have taken the time to, you know, try to educate me and I feel like I'm in on the inside edge of. lesbian little memes and subculture a little bit, which I feel so privileged and happy to be on. 

[00:10:59] Angela: But see, I know so many straight women, specifically, who will ask me, like my friends, who will be like, is it okay if I say this?

Is it okay if I do this? Is it okay if I wear this sweatshirt with a rainbow or what have you? Do you ever think that too? Of like, is this okay if I say this? Should I? Do you have anybody that you bounce off of? Or You just kind of go, no, my intention is good. 

[00:11:23] Molly: Yeah. I mean, I, I've so far been pretty lucky with very few exceptions.

I haven't offended anyone. I can't think of anything that I've taken down as a result. 

[00:11:33] Angela: No, I think it's so funny. And I think that's what I love about it the most is I'm like, this person isn't gay and is cracking me up. And I love that. You know, I was just like, I love that. How did you. Start making pride soap and trans lesbian soap, you know, all of these very specific things.

How did that come to be? I've been 

[00:11:56] Molly: making the pride soap for years and years, and I initially made it just for friends, just to give to friends to celebrate pride month because, and this sounds desperately backward, And so I hope your listeners will forgive me, but coming from and, and understand that comes from a place of ignorance and rather than ill will.

But I had always been taught in college where I took marketing courses, Hey, you know, have your brand be, you know, all whatever, clean of controversy, right? You don't want to step into it. You don't want to, you know, just stay, stay clear of everything. And so I thought, yeah, I can't have pride. So you know, I'll give it to my friends, whatever.

But obviously pride is not a political thing. It shouldn't be a political thing. It's only those assholes who've made it so, right? And so I did end up, you know, posting it for sale and that went well. And then trans was the second one. And as you know, a lot of folks in the trans community are under attack, you know, for various things.

All the laws and legal stuff, it just, it's, it's heartbreaking really. And for my birthday this past year, just on a whim, I, actually let me get back to, to that. One of the ways that I think we'll get to acceptance of LGBTQ of anyone is through stories, through people learning more about people. Like I was ignorant up until my freshman year in college.

I didn't even know that I knew gay people. I didn't understand anything, but it's only when you realize that, you know, people get to know people and then you can understand them and feel less fear. I remember evolving my acceptance of trans people who I didn't know existed until I was probably in my twenties or thirties, right?

Yeah. And then I remember seeing some news magazine thing, and it showed a trans woman who had been, when they, they were a man, happily married to a woman, very much loved each other, and they decided that they really were a woman, and had went through the transition, the wife was really loving, and just understanding and seeing this trans woman's journey, opened up my eyes, right?

I mean, they're just people. We're all just people. Okay. So stories, that's how we get them. This is how we get understanding. So for my birthday, which was in February, I posted a little short reel and I said, Hey, I will donate a dollar to the Trevor Project for every story that you share about someone trans that you know.

You know, trying to get people to say, here's my friend Sally, this is what they do. And not even just, you know, this is a remarkable person and they're an award winning playwright, less that than they like peanut butter on toast. You know, they're just regular people. And I very smartly. capped the amount at a hundred dollars, a hundred stories.

Cause I think I got like 10, 000 comments at least. Oh my God. Yeah. And, and even, even months afterwards, people were still like commenting and saying, Oh my God, you know, reading these have brought me to tears, or I really want to post about my friend and da, da, da, you know, It was lovely. This outpouring of support.

[00:15:39] Angela: I think that what makes that wonderful too, and the reason I really wanted us to have a conversation here is because of what you just described. It's like, this is a space, this podcast is a space where I'm inviting allies and family and friends. who, you know, want to, to hear those stories and want to hear how we're connected, you know, and also hear something resonant of like, Oh yeah, me too.

That's, you know, I do the same thing. I like the same things or whatever. And I feel like your platform, just your Instagram platform specifically, because I'm only on Instagram and threads, to be honest with you. Your platform, I feel like it provides this space where people who aren't in the LGBTQ community see something, like you just described, they see something and then they read all of these posts.

And even if they don't know somebody who is trans or don't know somebody who is gay, you know, they might find some sort of connection. It's just so beautiful. Well, and I get so 

[00:16:41] Molly: many comments from people. So, you know, I've done the pride and the trans soaps. I had to bring them up, but so I did a soap. I shouldn't wave that around.

Cause I think that's the last bar. And so, oh, I've got Arroway somewhere. Turns out it's like the Venn diagram of aromantic and, and asexual. So it's a small sliver. So I think I need to sort of. Work on the more popular flags, but you know, well, it's it's a it's a form of education, too I mean really and true.

Yeah, we're all learning about things I mean, but you know realistically I can't make a big batch of soap and then have only three sell right but you know Still when someone sees genderqueer and they they show the little crying eyes emoji like they're so happy To have seen themselves in a bar of soap.

That makes me feel good. Just hearing these people feel welcome. I got a letter, like someone took the time. She didn't leave her real name, but she took the time to write me an actual letter and tell me how much it meant to her. To see herself accepted in a bar of soap. 

[00:17:53] Angela: Wow. I know, right? Yeah. Yeah. That's really, that's really awesome.

And I had a conversation recently with someone who, that episode hasn't come out yet, but their story was, they weren't out yet, but their grandmother gave them like this little thing that was kind of a, a kind of a clue, kind of a hint of, Hey, I know you're gay and I accept you, you know, and I see you and I accept you.

And I want you to know that. You know, you're okay. And it's just this little thing, but it's symbolized so much. And I can imagine that people might buy a bar of your soap or many bars of your soap, hopefully, and give it as a gift to somebody. And you know, I think you have a Love Wins soap, or a Love is love soap, right?

That wins. Something like that. Which is such a small gesture, but 

[00:18:45] Molly: It's a little thing. It's huge at the same time. It's just a little thing. It's just a signifier to say, this is a safe space, and it doesn't even have to be a gift to someone. I can just imagine someone putting a pride soap And I hope this doesn't sound like I'm just trying to sell soap.

I'm not. You can do a sticker instead, do a sticker, but like a pride soap in their powder room. And then guests show up and use the bathroom and they realize, Oh, I can be more open. I can actually talk about my daughter who's gay or whatever. And I don't want people to just think that the pride soap is for gay people.

It's for anyone. Anyone can display. That pride flag. I have a friend who is queer and I've told this story several times, so you might have already seen this on my Instagram. But, uh, she told me that when she went to see her dentist, there was a little rainbow sticker at the receptionist desk and that was enough for her to realize, Hey, it's okay.

I can refer to my wife. Yeah. I can talk about these things. Yep. A little signifier, you know, and if someone is. wondering how to become a better ally, or has not even started, put a little rainbow sticker on your water bottle or your purse. and just allow people to know that you're a safe person. I mean, it's a tiny thing.

That is the best piece of advice. 

[00:20:12] Angela: Yes. Those are things that, like you said, open up a connection because I know I'm around somebody who is open and who's a safe person to be around. For example, I had somebody come to

the house when we first moved here, this guy who was doing some landscaping and he wore these rainbow suspenders. And this, he had, I mean, it was pretty awesome. It was rainbows and spenders and he, you know, you could tell he's clearly, you know, not gay and he was the last person in the world. I expected to wear rainbows and spenders, to be honest with you.

And then he had a shirt that said proud dad. And I was like, wow, that makes my heart quench. I love that so much. Yes. And let me tell you how, anytime I see a parent have, you know, a proud dad, a proud. mom, proud parent, what have you, sticker, shirt, whatever. It is the biggest thing to me. But to your point, if anybody, including myself is looking to be a better ally, it's really just small little symbols like that or big symbols.

Well, that's your baby 

[00:21:20] Molly: step. That's your first step to allyship. Right. And then later on, you can start having conversations with people, just dropping in. Hey, my gay daughter, or I don't, you don't have to talk about your gay daughter, but my daughter and her girlfriend 

[00:21:35] Angela: say, right, right. I had that same conversation with my mom recently, her neighbors moved.

They were a gay couple and I don't think they ever had a conversation that she was the parent of an LGBTQ person. And a lot of it was, she really didn't know how to bring that up. They didn't have a whole lot of conversations to begin with. That couple really kind of kept to themselves to be honest. And, um, You know, I was like, well, you know, this is how you could say it.

You could just casually say my daughter and her partner or my daughter and her girlfriend, like in a sentence of, you know, whatever it is. And she was like, really, is that easy? And I'm like, yeah, it's that easy, you know, but it's, it's just somebody really not knowing what are the ways in which we can demonstrate allyship that are just so simple.

And that 

[00:22:21] Molly: simple little sentence earlier on in their relationship. Maybe they wouldn't have kept to themselves so much. 

[00:22:27] Angela: You're right. Because I said, do you know how it would be if my neighbors, I mean, they, they have to know that there's a lesbian couple on the corner here, uh, with a crazy corgi dog who, you know, goes crazy when we take him for a walk or what have you.

But I would love if one of them would say something about maybe having a family member who's LGBTQ, or I don't know, just something to where I feel a little more comfortable in the conversation. Yeah, being yourself, being your whole authentic, real self. Exactly. Because even though I'm, you know, I'm very much open and, you know, proud to be gay.

In this situation where I'm surrounded by different neighbors, I kind of still feel other because I'm like, do they understand me? Do they get me? Yeah. Am I offending them? Just with my opinion? Are they open? Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. That's so true. So you mentioned that like, all of this was very accidental, not intentional about messaging, but was there anybody that you knew that?

You know, was, it was gay or that, why, why is it important to you? Was it just like something that sparked that? The 

[00:23:40] Molly: origin story. Yeah. Well, you know, more on a personal level, again, ignorance is, you know, I think the cause of more homophobia than we would think. And I grew up in a small, closed minded town.

With my group of nerdy friends with whom I played Dungeons and Dragons with. And I did not know what homosexuality was, honestly. And was, I went to church, I was very much a Christian. And so, freshman year of college, my friends and I, my nerdy old high school friends and I, we went to an adamant concert.

And then afterwards, we all get into cars to drive back home, or drive back to our respective places. And we had two cars and everybody went in one car and my friend, Anthony said, Hey, we're in this car. And on the drive back, he told me he was gay and I had never, well, here's the depth of my ignorance, which he still laughs at me about.

My first question was, well, who with? Because to me, homosexuality was action, right? But he just laughed and he kind of had to explain it a little bit. But to him, it was obviously. This was who he was, and you're gay whether or not you're indulging in homosexual acts. Anyways, this, this absolutely blew my little brain.

And over the course of the next whatever month or so, I could not stop thinking about it. And I was so happy that he trusted me. To this day, any time anyone comes out to me, It's such a gift, you know, I feel so lucky and privileged to be a part of that. That's why coming out stories always just really get to me.

And this shattered my brain at the time. I took a step back from being religious because I was like, The, the church that I was in was very homophobic and I was like, if God doesn't like Anthony for being this person, I can't worship that kind of God. And in fact, my entire circle of nerdy friends all turned out to be gay or bi or something.

So I was the unusual person and I spent the next several years happily tagging along with my gaggle of gay guys just inhabiting the gay bars in Portland. And hopefully this is not an offensive term, but back then, I very happily embraced being their fag, Hag, and I was a freaking good one. It was so much fun.

Shout out, Steve, Anthony, Michael, my friend, Debbie, my lesbian friend. Yeah, so it's knowing people and being friends and, uh, that is the start of where we break these barriers down. 

[00:26:48] Angela: I totally agree. And as we go into the new year, as we're in the new year, when people are listening to this, but for you and I, we're going into the new year.

I mean, what is your advice for staying optimistic, keeping our sense of humor, trying to, trying to maintain, you know, I was thinking like, There's this thing going around right now with the movie Wicked where it's holding space for defying gravity. Have you heard of this? 

[00:27:15] Molly: No. 

[00:27:16] Angela: Okay, so like the song Defying Gravity in the movie Wicked this person associated with GLAAD His name is Tony Morrison.

He posted the lyrics just after the election He posted some of the lyrics to Defying Gravity and he was like and I'm paraphrasing but he was like, you know I'm feeling so many things I'm feeling worried. I'm feeling you know, a lot of heaviness You But for now, I feel like this character in this movie speaks for me and I'm going to hold space for the words of this song.

It's very much about feeling othered, you know, and feeling the heaviness and the gravity of that and trying to defy that and to resist that, I guess. And when I was going to chat with you, I thought, I feel like that's kind of what I'm doing is like, we're holding space for optimism, you know, trying to like, Sit in that, even though things are tumultuous, things are questionable.

How are you feeling about the new year and that topic of optimism? 

[00:28:20] Molly: Yeah, a deep state of depression, really. I mean, here you are talking to optimistic soap, but the election was, Devastating to me. And I worried that my deepest predictions will come to pass. And that is a worry. Optimism is not rose colored glasses.

It's not pretending that things aren't wrong. It is seeing reality and then feeling empowered and able to do something about it. So the big, bad things are big and bad. They really are. And I am sad and devastated and very upset about that. However, even though there are big, bad things, everybody has agency.

Even if it's a small circle, even if you are just a small person with a limited budget and no time, you can do a little thing to make the world better. If you're a bigger person and you've got this soap platform and an Instagram, you know, you can be a little bit bigger about Allyship and advocating and fundraising and doing all those things.

You know, I'm just a tiny little soap maker, right? But I am happy and so excited and thrilled to make a donation of a hundred dollars, a thousand dollars or whatever. I can do that. And that makes the world a little bit better. And if we all work on our corners of the world that we have agency in, It will be better.

I'm not saying it's going to be amazing. We're going to have a rough four years, I think, but we can all work to make things better. We can hold hands with each other. We can be allies together. We can reach out across to each other and team up our resources. And hopefully, make life a little bit better for those that we can.

[00:30:28] Angela: Yeah. And I think like what you mentioned earlier of, you know, a bar of soap in your home, a sticker, a t shirt or what have you now more than ever, I think that those are going to be such important symbols and. Messages of community that we're all going to need, even, you know, somebody who is a parent of an LGBTQ person who is just as scared, just as confused, just as, you know, there's a symbol of allyship.

This is a safe space that I can have a conversation. Even if it's about what I'm worried about now, and then maybe that's how we find a little more optimism is in each other. Well, and that's a 

[00:31:12] Molly: way of connecting, right? It's a way of creating a little bit of community. It's another connection that you wouldn't have had before.

Exactly. We need community. Community is going to be really important. 

[00:31:24] Angela: It's going to be vital. Yeah. Well, I'm really excited that we had this conversation. I hope that this has been, I think it's been a very uplifting and positive way to start the year, even though it's a little questionable. Where can people find you online?

And your website, et cetera. 

[00:31:43] Molly: The website is optimistic soap. com. I always hate being salesy. I am not a good salesperson. Conversely, and oddly, I think I sell well because I'm not trying to sell to people, but yeah, that's the website. That's where you can buy. Uh, I am most active on Instagram and that's optimistic soap.

Yeah. And that's where I just want people to come and have a conversation. Honestly, I feel bad when people like go on and they say, Hey, I really can't afford the soap and I'm like, you don't have to afford the soap. Just leave me a nice comment. I want to hear from people. 

[00:32:17] Angela: Yeah, I leave their story in there.

Like you said, that's how you build connection. That's what it's all about. I love it. Molly, I appreciate your time. Thank you for being here. 

Molly: Sure thing. Thanks, Angela.