42. Let them sparkle: a conversation with Give Them Glitter podcast

Three words: Give.Them.Glitter. 

There is so much meaning in just three words!

In this episode, Joshua and LesLeigh, the creators and hosts of the Give Them Glitter podcast, join me to talk about their podcast, join me to talk about their podcast, where they share their life stories about marriage, family, and raising two young boys, one who is non-binary and expresses himself with dresses and things outside of traditional gender norms and one who is more gender traditional. 

LesLeigh and Joshua use their voices and platform to share their personal stories about life, love, and raising good humans. 

On this episode, we talk about:

• the impact of the words "give them glitter"
• how past experiences with family shaped the way they connect with their kids
• the idea of parenting "with the end in mind" 
• the importance of being an example in your community and modeling lgbtq+ allyship for your kids

Joshua and LesLeigh of Give Them Glitter podcast or pure GOLD! 

Find Give Them Glitter podcast on Apple, Spotify, and YouTube. 

Instagram: @givethemglitterpodcast

Follow LesLeigh on Substack at Her Written Style on Instagram at @herwrittenstyle.

Follow Joshua on Instagram at @joshuaahouston or on his new podcast, The Joshua Houston Podcast.

Chapters

• 1:54 How GTG started
• 5:20 Creating examples for our community
• 7:36 Parenting with the end in mind
• 16:07 Siblings
• 22:25 Fostering Unconditional Love
• 29:03 Building Community
• 37:29 Final Questions for Give Them Glitter

Transcript

Semi-edited (via Descript)

[00:01:37] Angela: Leslie and Joshua, thank you for joining me. And I want to ask you for anybody who doesn't know about your podcast, can you tell me the meaning behind the awesome title?

I love that title, by the way, Give Them Glitter and like how podcast conversation, why that was important.

How the podcast started

[00:01:54] LesLeigh: Yes. So, it's originated, like, our youngest has always been, um, into, you know, like, what people would describe as traditionally feminine things. Um, he's always liked, pink and purple and he's always loved Elsa and princesses and all that kind of stuff. And there was, um, one time when our kids were like playing with glitter or something like that.

And I remember thinking through just kind of, parent's reactions, specifically dad's reactions to like their son's playing with or being associated with anything feminine. And I just had the thought of like, just look there, you know, their kids, just let them have the glitter, just give them the glitter. , and then I was telling him about it cause I, had originally wanted it to be, a book. And then, we were talking and he was like, I think it would make a good podcast. because we've. much wanted to, we were not seeing, because we live in Texas, we were not seeing representation for him of men in dresses, boys in dresses, boys, you know, wearing nail polish and doing what society calls feminine things.

And we were like, if we're not going to see it, then we've got to like, build a community where it's okay, and where he can be safe. And so that's kind of where the inspiration came from for the podcast.

[00:03:21] Angela: I love that idea of building a community. That's really important.

[00:03:25] Joshua: Well, I was just gonna say to follow up on what she said there, that was a really big motivation for us is That we felt like, and living in Texas, you can feel this way where you're a bit on an island. not an, you know, the same resources as in other places. You got to work really hard to build that community. But we felt like we're actually normal. Like, I think there's a lot of couples out there, a lot of moms and dads and family units that look like ours, would be. accepting of their son and would be supporting and would be loving. We're just not, uh, don't see parents like that a lot out. You see, um, adults, you know, talking about their experience and maybe they're an adult, now that identifies as he/ him, but wears a dress and they share those experiences, but that journey of to that point, like that parenting journey. We just didn't see a couple talking about it publicly. Um, and so we kind of wanted to create that space as well. So other parents who not just have kids that are gender non conforming, but are wanting to be supportive that and journey through that, we wanted to give them a place where they could. find themselves and because

We have friends who have Kids that are more gender traditional and they're very supportive of our son and they would be very supportive of their kids as well And so that's where we're we were like, we feel like there's a lot of parents like us who This stuff isn't a political statement for them.

They just want to love their kids well so we wanted to model that we wanted to like create that public space Where they could come in and find like minded parents who are on that same journey

Creating examples for our community

[00:05:20] Angela: Yeah. That's awesome. I'm curious when you say that, like who were the models for you guys? I mean, that's just such an amazing thing to say of like, we are the example for our other parent friends and we've got to create The community, but a lot of times if you don't have an example, did you guys have any examples or what was the thing that kind of aligned you with I'm not even sure how to say it, I 

think 

[00:05:49] Joshua: one motivator, and I'll let you speak to some examples, but, I think you have good examples and you have bad examples, right? bad examples I think can often drive you to be like, well, I'm not going to be that way. Okay. Um, so one example of that is when we started dating.

my grandparents stopped talking to me because, you know, for those of you listening, you can't see, but my wife is black. And that was a, that was a deal breaker for them. So that relationship ended, right? And for me, it's one of those where I never want my kids. grandkids, anyone in my family, to feel that way.

I want them all to know that you have unconditional love and support and safety in my family unit. so that's a big motivator, right? That wasn't a good example. That was a bad example, but you learn from it and say, yeah, we're not going to repeat that,

[00:06:51] Angela: right.

[00:06:52] Joshua: you know, hatred, uh, the trauma that comes from that.

We're gonna, we're going to end that. this generation

[00:06:59] Angela: Yeah.

[00:07:00] Joshua: To my parents credit that was that wasn't an issue for them. It was very specifically my grandparents But that was before we had kids we were dating and you know that was a moment that I think was important in shaping the type of parents we want to be where We're not gonna be that way.

We're not gonna be exclusive. We're not gonna have these silent expectations, we're going to be loving, inclusive, supportive, safe. the type of family unit we want to build. so like, that was a, a not, you asked for a good example. That wasn't a good example, but that was one you learned from to be

[00:07:34] Angela: Yeah,

[00:07:35] Joshua: that.

Parenting with the end in mind

[00:07:36] Angela: And you know, in a weird way, it is a good example. Do you know what I mean? Like, an honest example. And it's probably one that a lot of people come across. You know, it's like, that's what I don't want to do with my kids. And Joshua, I've heard you say on, on y'all's podcast, you've said parent with the end in mind.

And I love that you say that. And I'm wondering if you could kind of share a little bit more about what that means so that, um, anybody listening can kind of understand that.

[00:08:04] Joshua: Well, like Leslie said, she came up with that name and

[00:08:08] Angela: Yeah. 

[00:08:09] Joshua: I'm sure Someone has said that before. I'm not the originator of it, uh, but it had just come up in our conversations and that's where we were like, we should just do these with a microphone. 

[00:08:18] LesLeigh: Yeah. We taught, we often joke that we're like, we've been trading to be conversationalists or whole. relationship because we have we just will have these like really deep introspective conversations and We would talk a lot about like what we because we've both struggled in our adult relationships with our parents would talk a lot about how can we prevent that from happening with our kids?

Like how do we do what we can now on this end to ensure that they both grow up to be healthy individuals, but also So that we can have good healthy relationships with them as adults And so we were like we can't wait till we get there to start thinking of that way. We have to do it now on this end 

[00:09:03] Joshua: Yeah, and so it really came from conversations we had and You You know, this idea that they're going to spend more time as our adult kids than as our little kids. And so we need to parent in a way that the majority of our relationship with them is going to be as adults. And seeing a lot of moments as it's not just this moment, right? It's, the next moment. When they're a preteen and it's the next moment when they're a teenager and it's the next moment because those build over time create narratives really of your relationship with your kids and how they feel like they can come to you so Like a great example of that recently is over the Thanksgiving week, our youngest, he came to me, he had had a, like a little bandaid on his knee and he wanted to take it off and he's young enough where that's still a pretty dramatic event.

Right. And so he wanted me to be there and help him with that. And the whole time, I offered. He said no. He didn't want me to take it off. So I was like, okay, you do it. I helped him. Now luckily it was the week of Thanksgiving. I had time to do this, right? I had time off of, you know, being a parent. The reality is you're busy and everything. But it was kind of just letting him set the pace and me just being there with him until like he finally took it off and he was brave and he did it and I was proud of him. His brother had come along and we like celebrated that, which sounds silly, right? It's just a Band Aid. Um, I could have been like, come on, just take it off and gone on.

But it's more to me, that mindset of, to him at the age he's at now, taking the Band Aid off is a hard thing, right? And he wanted the support. Well, he's still going to do hard things. he's a teenager and a young adult and into adulthood. It's just not going to be a band aid, right? But what I want for him is I want for him to feel like he can come to me he's doing hard things and I will be the support he needs through that, And so that's what I mean by parenting with the end in mind. Like right now it's a band aid. You know, in the future it may be a relationship. It may be a job or a situation, right? And you're laying that relational foundation now. To say, you can come to me when you're little and I'll sit with you and celebrate when you take the Band Aid off I want you to do the same thing as an adult when it's a bigger deal than a Band Aid. that's the,

[00:11:33] Angela: Um,

[00:11:34] Joshua: came from. That's kind of what it means and the motivation behind it.

[00:11:43] Angela: I think it's really important when I think back on like just a bunch of different moments in my life, just knowing that your parent is there for you or whoever it is who is parenting you, you're right.

That support really makes a huge difference. And then. You know, as far as like expressing yourself, expressing your personality, and you guys describe both of your kiddos, you describe one of them as 

playing with dolls or dresses or what have you. was that always a comfortable space? Like earlier you mentioned you wanted to be the example. You know, that you didn't have, but from the beginning, when your child does exhibit something and you're like, okay, maybe that's something that other people would be like, why is this little boy, you know, polishing his nails or something?

Is there any fear that you had, or were you immediately like, I'm going to show him how to be proud of that and you know, how to, how to embrace who he is.

[00:12:40] LesLeigh: Well, it was definitely different because our oldest is a lot more of a, um, traditional boy cars and, you know, planes, trains, and automobiles and wrestling and rough play and and all that kind of stuff. He's a lot more traditional. So when our youngest came around and his interests were different, it , was a completely new adventure because we hadn't been there before. I think, well, we were in church at the time. so we both have deconstructed out of religion. but we had, we both grew up in Christianity. and so I think in the very beginning, we both initially struggled and it wasn't so much of an acceptance thing. I think we both And we both knew kind of intrinsically that we would support our kids no matter what, and we would love them no matter what.

So it was never like a, Oh, how do we fix this? I think were nervous on his behalf of like, where is he going to be accepted? How is he going to be accepted? How are other people to react and respond to this? And

[00:13:48] Angela: Right. Okay.

[00:13:49] LesLeigh: the biggest challenge thus far. It was like, what are our parents going to think of this?

And, um,

[00:13:55] Angela: What do your parents think of it, out of curiosity? are they supportive to you and to them? Or is it still a little bit of a, a journey?

[00:14:04] LesLeigh: it's a journey. I think, of them have been like aggressive or, you know, use any language of like disowning or anything like that. but they have made comments and they've, you know, of questioned why. We let him wear a dress or why we'll buy him, you know, girl toys or whatever. and we've explained why that is and I don't know.

I think it's part of it is just because they're all four of our parents are from a very different period. They're all, , baby boomer age.

[00:14:37] Angela: Mm hmm.

[00:14:38] LesLeigh: and so I think it's that it's also like Christianity, it's Southern values and culture. 

[00:14:47] Joshua: Yeah, a lot that goes that. Um, Yeah, my, I would say mine as well.

 There's been no hostility, there's a difference too in kind of non acceptance and Just full, like, of course, like, I, we're gonna, 

[00:15:11] LesLeigh: I feel like they tolerate it more than they accept it. 

[00:15:14] Joshua: I think that's a good way putting it. Yeah. And that's tough, you know, because, uh, That is something I would say our youngest, even at his age, can somewhat perceive. a difference in that relationship he has with them versus what his older brother has, uh, with them. at the end of the day, that's going to be something for them to work out with him as he gets older. We just want him to know that as his parents, as his brother, Like, he is 100 percent accepted, loved, affirmed, in this space. We can't control all the other factors, but what we can control is our family unit. And, you know, we've heard enough as well from other people in the LGBTQ community, how much that would have meant. for them, like

[00:16:03] Angela: Mm hmm.

[00:16:04] Joshua: their family unit, even if just

[00:16:06] Angela: Yeah.

Siblings

[00:16:07] Joshua: just their siblings would have offered that unconditional love and affirmation. So that's what we're trying to, to give to him. And I should also point out, we're talking a lot about him. I should also point out with his older brother. he is, his best friend. He's very supportive, very, loving of him. He is like thoughtful in the gifts he gets him. and so it's, it just goes to show how much that stuff is really taught and learned. Whereas for him, the norm is going to be like, of course you and love people for who they are. That's what we should do, right?

[00:16:45] Angela: Yeah.

[00:16:45] Joshua: Rather than teaching. the opposite of that So yeah, we're just trying to foster that Within our home. I feel like we didn't answer the question.

[00:16:53] Angela: No, I think, I think you did,

[00:16:56] Joshua: How was that

[00:16:57] Angela: yeah. That's what I was, yeah.

[00:16:59] Joshua: parents and your family Oh,

[00:17:01] Angela: Yeah, the story you just told me about your kiddos

[00:17:04] Joshua: closer

[00:17:05] Angela: much reminded me of my sister and I, we have a seven year age difference though. I think your kids are both like, are they both under five? Yeah, under 10. Okay. So my sister and I are seven, have a seven year age difference, but mean, she's my best friend, 

but, um, that, uh, dynamic is so important. And it's so funny because. I didn't realize I was gay until later, like college. And by the time I came out to my sister, it literally, I did a podcast about this. It took me four hours to come out to her. I could not say the words that I was gay. And she was sitting there just like, Oh my God, please.

Like, whatever this is, just say this. I finally blurted out to her. And she's like, yeah, I know that. And I'm like,

[00:17:50] Joshua: Yeah.

[00:17:50] Angela: you do? And she's like, yeah. Like, I'm like, hello. We lived in the same house. Like I knew that before you knew that. How is that possible?

And I'm like, I don't know. Um, but it was just so funny. I think siblings get it and they don't care a lot of times, you know, or, , cause it's like, that's your friend, you know, and you love them. And it is unconditional love, hopefully, you know, in the most ideal space, I guess. and then I.

came out to my parents, probably a lot later than that, actually. To this day, I have not come out to my dad formally. I mean, obviously he knows, but , when I came out to my mom, I was already in a relationship with someone. And, you know, again, she figured it out too. And she was like, Hey, that's how I came out to her because she was like, Hey, are you guys together?

And I was like, yeah. And then that was that. And it was just this wonderful moment because. You know, she's of that same generation you described earlier. She's in the baby, baby boomer generation. And I think for her, there's just a lot of fear of you know, I mean, people are going to be mean to you, people are going to, you know, this and that.

Honestly, I have not had those moments. Um, very weird thing recently, my family and I went to Disney world and Joshua, you talked about like, you know, parenting with the end in mind. So like we go to Disney world and I mean, obviously we're all adults. And. I'm like, there's pride ears. I got to get these pride ears.

Right. And I'm like, so excited about it. I'm 50 years old and I'm like, I'm getting pride ears. I'm gonna be a kid in Disney. And, you know, and I'm around my family and I'm just, you know, that's not lost on me that,

[00:19:28] Joshua: Yeah.

[00:19:28] Angela: know, little Angela, younger Angela, who like, I didn't. I didn't understand really or what I was feeling for a long time. And so fast forward to going to Disney World and we're all adults and my parents are in their seventies and here's my mom going, well, I'm going to buy you those. There's pride ears, you know, and I'm like, mom, I can buy these pride ears.

Like, and she was like, no, I bought something for your sister. I'm going to buy something for you. And you know, she's still a parent, you know, and this is somebody who it was hard for her. Like it wasn't easy. It wasn't, and it was hard because she just didn't understand it, but she did say like, she didn't, she never said the words.

I don't understand it. She never said, um, I reject you. She never said anything like that. She literally just held my hand when I came out to her. And I got the feeling that she was just like, I don't understand this, but We're gonna figure it out. And I always got that feeling throughout my whole life. And like I said, I never told my dad because my mom knew.

I don't know. She's like, well, mom knows. It's fine. And I just never said anything to my dad. I think it was more out of embarrassment or something. I would, sounds kind of silly, but I don't think he cared. I think he was just like, yeah, okay. So next, you know, I think he probably had an idea too. I honestly think everybody knew before I did.

 So you never know with your kids, like who they're going to end up being. And, you know, but you might have somewhat of an idea before they do, because they're still trying to figure it out, you know?

[00:21:12] Joshua: one thing that we've talked about before is You know, if you think about it, have only had a very few trips around the sun, right?

[00:21:22] Angela: Right.

[00:21:24] Joshua: obviously we know developmentally they're learning a lot, but even just like in who they are, you got to think your kids for just a few years have only been learning what they do and don't like, and everything is still like new and exploring. And so they're learning in real time what they like and what they don't like and their preferences. But so are we and I think that You know, you just have to Decide as a parent and you know It sounds like your mom has absolutely made the decision where i'm just gonna love my kids unconditionally because they're my kids that's what i'm gonna do for them, right? You know, for us, it's never been a matter of who they bring home, what they wear, what they like or don't like. To us, those are expectations that, you can probably relate to this. I know we both have felt this. Your parents get kind of an expectation, unspoken expectations of what life will look like for you.

That

[00:22:24] Angela: Right.

Fostering Unconditional Love

[00:22:25] Joshua: that often times, more than anything, mirror their own lived experiences. And then if you don't meet those, be it, you know, you come out, you're gay, or maybe you get married later, or maybe you don't have kids, and maybe you go to college or don't go to college, like, there can be all of these hidden expectations of what you do or don't do, and we've all experienced when we don't measure up to those hidden expectations, unspoken expectations

[00:22:54] Angela: Yeah.

[00:22:55] Joshua: we wanted to try to create an environment where we were much more focused on. Their character, the type of person they are. And if you want to go to college, because that's what you want to do. Great. But that's not our expectation. If you want to wear a t shirt, you want to wear a dress, fine. Your character as a person doesn't change. If you bring home a man, a woman, bring home someone who goes by they, them doesn't really matter to us. We care about type of person you are. and fostering that in you. And then you're going to like who you like. You're going to love who you love and you're always going to be loved in our space.

And so that's kind of been our, our approach. We've even joked, um, uh, not joked, maybe is a better word. Um, how we would like it ideally if our kids, Never had to come out to us, you know where they just knew Okay, mom and dad are gonna accept me here and so if I bring home a man or a woman a Non binary person like mom and dad are are gonna love and accept me because they care about my character.

They care about who I am That's what they're gonna care about too with this other person. I bring home. So that's just always been our approach

[00:24:09] Angela: Yeah,

[00:24:10] Joshua: and I don't know if it's realistic to not come out. I mean, I didn't come out to my parents as straight

[00:24:14] Angela: exactly. Yeah,

[00:24:15] Joshua: it's

[00:24:16] Angela: it's possible. I've heard a I have friends who their kids have have done that. Um, you know, they haven't. It is, it's, it's wonderful. They don't need to say anything at all. You know, they just like who they like and you know, they're in that teenager phase and, you know, their parents who are my age or a little younger.

Um, this is their first, like you mentioned earlier, Joshua, you're just like learning how to do this too. You know, how do, how do I parent both of my kids who, you know, I'm still discovering who they are, they're discovering who they are, but how do I do this too? I mean, I would imagine just being a parent is a big question mark, period.

So, so then if you're adding, if you're adding an element of like, I've never, you know, But I think that's why your podcast is really important because it is a parenting podcast, but it also has that dynamic of like, A, I've never done this before. you know, we're going to talk about just parenting in general and B, I, I'm going to make sure that I am the most affirming, supportive parent to my child, even if they exhibit some, some traits or what have you that I'm not familiar with.

So, you know, like Leslie, you mentioned earlier, or at the very beginning, you mentioned. If my son plays with a doll or wears a dress, that's something that a man, a father, might kind of have a difficult time with. Did you have a difficult time with that in the beginning, Joshua? I don't think I asked you that.

[00:25:45] Joshua: That's a great question. I, I didn't because for me it was always one of those where I was always going to choose my son. Right. And, you know, the, the reason I mentioned my grandparents at the start.

[00:26:02] Angela: Mm hmm.

[00:26:02] Joshua: was because I think there was a formative element for me there, even though that moment wasn't about me as a dad.

It was about the family I was building, um, and choosing, right? And so, I think of that as, like, a moment where I would, had decided, like, I'm not gonna do that as a dad. I'm not gonna be someone who's gonna cut my kids off, who's, because of, like, because of me, right? Um, not because of anything they're doing wrong.

It's because of my mindset. so I just wasn't going to do that. And like Leslie had mentioned, when we had our youngest, we still identified as Christians. We were still going to church. we kind of moved through that and part of it for us leaving religion and not identifying as Christians anymore a lot to do with our youngest and just Choosing him now.

I know there are Christians who are open and affirming there's denominations that are that We just landed kind of through that process on on not being Christians anymore, but even when we moved one time it was a long time before we found a church because We knew we had a son who was you know Non-binary and how he, his preferences and we wanted a congregation that would be accepting of that. and so we even had to take a long time to find that. So even in that there was never a moment where we were gonna try to make him conform to something. It was always any space we're going to take him into, or the space we're building around him. We want that to be safe for him. and we want him to know that there's, there's nothing wrong.

So it wasn't so much as a struggle for me with him because I was always going to choose him. The, I guess that where the cognitive dissonance happened was with some of these other periphery things in life and how it's like, okay, well now they don't feel like they align with, I want for him. how do we line those up? That's where a lot of the wrestling came in more than my acceptance of him. Like, I just, I don't know how I couldn't accept him. Like, he's just, both of them. Like, they're my kids. They're my sons. Like, of course, I'm gonna love them. And so that was never a question. And getting all the other parts to line up with that has been more of the painful

[00:28:26] Angela: Yeah.

[00:28:26] Joshua: element of it

[00:28:28] Angela: I imagine that that's the hard part, like, and that's why I started this podcast was because after I came out, I started recognizing that maybe my parents were going to have a difficult conversation with their friends because at that time, you know, it was definitely different. 

[00:28:45] Joshua: Yeah. Mm

[00:28:46] Angela: You know, at the time.

I really didn't know anybody else in my friend group who was gay and if they were They hadn't mentioned it either. And so I recognized that my mom specifically didn't really have I don't have anybody else to talk to, you know,

[00:29:01] Joshua: Mm

Building Community

[00:29:03] Angela: I was just 

like, maybe we need to create a space.

You're talking about creating a community, doing that here, you know, maybe we need to create a space where we kind of talk about like, yeah, that's a thing, you know, of parents not having other parents to talk to. And I think that's where. Fear is rooted because you feel like you're the only one who has a child who shows a difference and I think that's where all of that is rooted.

Do you guys have other? friends that you can bounce off of and talk to or has it been a space where you felt alone and you're like I'm building it so That don't feel alone now.

[00:29:38] LesLeigh: I would say it's a little bit of both, like, we, um, for probably the first half of our marriage had a really hard time finding community, particularly because we had our oldest so young, so early, um, No one our age was having kids so like we didn't even meet any other parents until Like three ish years ago that we even had anything in common with and

[00:30:02] Angela: Mm hmm

[00:30:04] Joshua: of our friend group so it it was I think when we were initially talking about the podcast that was the part was a huge component because um just like, we know there's other parents out there like us, maybe we can build something to find them or to give them something to find, to give them a place to have community. And since then, we do have several close friends that are very supportive and very encouraging and, who all have different parenting styles, but we love watching them as parents and learning from them. And that was the other part of the podcast was like, One of the best ways to learn as a parent is to observe other parents doing stuff because you're going to be in your own echo chamber, like thinking of your own ideas for your own kid. And you, you know, you're, you may not have any other ideas of like how to do something until you watch it in action. Like I've watched several of our friends, parent interact with their kids or manage conflict and I'm like, wow, what a unique like way to do that. They've said something, you know. Kind of about their kid growing up that i'm like man I never thought of it that way before like let me file that away for later

[00:31:19] Angela: Right,

[00:31:19] LesLeigh: so it's been a huge I think being a parent in general you you need community like you do You can't it's not something you can do alone Yeah,

[00:31:32] Angela: You mentioned the boomer generation, I think a big thing of that generation or a big part of the mindset that is so different from where you are specifically and even where I'm at, we feel like there's power in communication and sharing, , whereas for my parents and probably your parents and grandparents, um, You didn't talk about things like that.

Like in general, like no matter what it was, you know, you just kept a lot of things to yourself . I think that that's kind of the biggest hurdle I've found is just. Um, sharing with people like it's okay to talk about whatever, you know,

[00:32:08] Joshua: Yeah.

[00:32:09] Angela: beings.

We're all going through stuff. We're all struggling. And, we all want the same thing at the end of the day, you know, um, it's just a matter of, of sharing how we're not alone in things. I don't know.

[00:32:21] Joshua: Yeah, we knew we were not, like we mentioned earlier, that, you know, we're not the only ones. There's a lot of family units like us, either with a child who is non binary, or plenty who their kids are transitioning, different things like that. But just parents who, if their kids were that, would love and accept them, right?

And do have those friends who, like I mentioned, their kids. may fit into more gender norms, but even if they didn't, they would love them unconditionally and support them unconditionally. And so even it's almost like that chosen family that you get to build up around your kids and those like adopted aunts and uncles type,

[00:33:04] Angela: Right.

[00:33:05] Joshua: just that whole environment. And to Leslie's point, just those conversations with those parents were so enriching. They're, there's such a place for, you know. Doctors and psychologists and they're needed But something that does feel really lacking in the parenting space and we talked about this a lot ready to launch our podcast is It felt like parenting podcasts fell into two categories either most of it was very young Kids like how do you navigate? toddlers and young kids like that and all the developmental stuff that goes with that Or the funny parts of parenting and parenting humor, right?

[00:33:46] Angela: Mm hmm.

[00:33:47] Joshua: And so we were wanting to make that space where we just kind of have those conversations like you have with your parenting friends, because that has been so valuable to us in our parenting journey is just doing it with and learning from each other and hearing from each other and supporting each other and our kids, and so that's kind of what we were trying to replicate with the podcast is something that, you know, we talk about, we're not experts, we're just parents on this journey, sharing our journey, and want people to find themselves in that, and find them. Like, this is a space where I can come and not necessarily be told how to parent, as much as it's just a conversation about, like, we have the responsibility of raising whole little humans. Like, we're trying to do that well, and we need each other in that process. 

[00:34:40] Angela: I know your kiddos are younger, you said younger than 10, but. Have you had any conversations about, I hope not, but about bullying and has anything come up that you feel like you have to prepare your kiddo for that? Prepare yourselves too. How do you prepare yourselves for those moments?

[00:34:58] LesLeigh: we haven't had to deal with any bullying thus far,

[00:35:01] Angela: That's good.

[00:35:02] LesLeigh: thank goodness.

[00:35:03] Angela: Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. That's good.

[00:35:10] LesLeigh: so We try to buy them books that are that of that talk about mindset that talk about like we have a book that's about change We have one that's about let's say the one stranger danger and so we buy books like that.

So we're probably going to start adding now that they're getting a little older and they may encounter conflict in friendships. We're probably going to start heading that direction. Um, we do a lot of like social emotional work with them on navigating conflict on recognizing of who's a friend and who isn't a friend on what are good behaviors.

Um, We're very focused on them understanding what safety looks and feels like so that they can recognize danger. Because I think that's often the harder part is kids come from an environment where they don't feel safe maybe and so they don't know they don't know if they're being bullied or they don't know that that's not appropriate behavior to be or experiencing because they don't know what safety looks like.

And so very intentional with them on like, you know, your body belongs to you and nobody should be hitting you, touching you, all that kind of stuff. then also working with them on being good friends. Hey, you don't need to be a bully either. Like you, you have, you know, sharing is a great thing to do.

And like, ask somebody if they need help. If you see that you can help them, ask them if they need help. Um, if you need help, be okay with asking for it, know, take turns and things like that. and trying to model a lot of that is modeling behaviors for them so that They're not just being told something arbitrarily like a lot of it is modeling So there's you know times when we will have like we'll have conflict and we're like working it out you know as they're running around and stuff because we know it's gonna pay off and be in their kind of relational tool chest later on that they can draw from so luckily enough, we haven't had to struggle with bullying or anything, but Hopefully we're preparing them just in case Yeah.

[00:37:23] Angela: you're trying to be a little, I don't want to say proactive, I don't think that's the word, but you know, I think preparing them is probably the best word , to recognize when someone isn't treating them right. You know, just simply isn't treating them right.

[00:37:35] Joshua: Yeah.

Final Questions for Give Them Glitter

[00:37:35] Angela: yeah. So before I, let you go, I'd love to know, um, two things. One, what has been like the most surprising or interesting thing you've learned from conversations in your own podcast?

Like, is there anything that's come up that you've been like, Oh, that's, that's interesting. I never thought of that. Or maybe as far as building a community, surprising in a good way or any feedback that you've come across that has been meaningful.

[00:38:01] Joshua: one thing that it's been very encouraging, I think how many parents it resonates with and, When we look at our analytics, we can see that the demographic is heavily those people like 25 to 45 in it with parenting. Right. But there's still people in that like 18 to 24 demo that pop up on there.

There's still people, you know, who are older with older kids, people we know of who don't have kids. And so it's been really neat to see. how it's not just parents listening, which is really what we want, really what we've been going for. Even we've kind of wrestled with calling it a parenting podcast because we feel like there's a bit of a stigma, I guess, maybe is the right word for it or a stereotype that we are giving parenting advice. And that's not what we're doing. We're just really more than anything, sharing our journey and inviting people to, you know, bring their journey along with us in building that. so it's just been really encouraging to see how many people that's resonated with. I think it's been very clear to us.

There's a lot of who have kiddos like we do that generally don't feel represented. They don't feel like they have outlets for their stories and voices to be platformed where they can go You be safe as a family unit, oftentimes in a public context. it's just been, it's been really, really heartening to see all the families, all the people who have reached out and, funny enough, like the thing we get the most is people saying, thank you, which is like, No, it's not what I expected, you know, it just, it resonates with them. And so that's been, that's been wonderful. And really has been the goal is to give people a space to feel like I can just bring my whole self here. And it's, judgment free zone and we've wanted that as well not just with parents But people who are thinking about being parents one day people who are further down the parenting journey that we can learn from and so we personally like to think of our podcast more about it's more like family life in a way than parenting we need to do a little more rebranding around that like But it's just been, been very neat to see people that it's resonated with. and that our goal of it not being about advice. seem like that's what people get out of it. They don't, they don't get parenting advice. They get more of the community, the more of the conversational.

[00:40:42] Angela: Yeah.

[00:40:43] Joshua: You

[00:40:43] Angela: feel like I know your family.

[00:40:45] Joshua: I hope they like it. I hope they know what we're trying to convey.

Um, 

[00:40:49] Angela: they do.

[00:40:50] Joshua: it feels like that has come through, which is encouraging. Yeah.

[00:40:58] Angela: Instagram or something. I was like, we're so aligned in our goals, you know, with our conversations and, you guys mentioned in your podcast, like, you know, not feeling like an interview, just feeling like a conversation, somebody coming to your living room.

I've said that too. Like, I want somebody to feel like they're just coming over for coffee type thing. And Oh yeah, I just so happen to be gay. And I kind of get that vibe on your podcast too, of there are these two parents who, Oh yeah, one of their kiddos happens to, you know, be gender nonconforming or, expresses themselves different than their other kiddo and.

It is what it is. And I think that particular part of your podcast, to me, it's, the best thing because you haven't made it a thing. Do you know what I'm saying? Like it just is. And that's kind of the way it should be. Like when you mentioned earlier, like if either one of your kids come out to you, you hope they actually don't come out to you.

I hope they just, you know, love who they want to love.

[00:41:56] Joshua: Yeah.

[00:41:59] Angela: comes through in your podcast for me you're just talking about your life. I crack up at the stories you tell about, I think it's your older son who likes everything big and including women. You were mentioning that recently and I was on the floor of that one.

I was just like, you're like, it doesn't matter what it is. It's big. And he loves it. And I was like, that is just so funny. Like I said, I don't even have kids and I listen to the podcast, your stories resonate with me I'm always forever trying to relate to my parents of, you know, what are, what are they going through? I'm not a parent. I don't know what they're going through. And like I said, even at age 70 for them and 50 for me, you know, we're still, I'm learning how to do this thing. It's

[00:42:43] Joshua: Yeah.

[00:42:44] Angela: their first time parenting and it's my first time being a kiddo.

So you know what I'm saying? Like you just always are. Um, but my last question before I let you go, there were two parts. I'm noticing Joshua that you, um, threads, you were mentioning you have a new project. Can you talk about that? And did this like, kind of pivot a little bit or is there a bigger,

[00:43:05] Joshua: it

[00:43:05] Angela: bigger conversation?

[00:43:06] Joshua: still doing Give Them Glitter

[00:43:09] Angela: Okay.

[00:43:10] Joshua: That podcast is still going.. This other one, it actually came out of more me talking specifically about the online space that men often exist in, um,

[00:43:21] Angela: hmm.

[00:43:22] Joshua: what the algorithms feed them. just, not just the disinformation, but the really toxic versions of masculinity that they get fed.

[00:43:32] Angela: Yeah.

[00:43:32] Joshua: so I had kind of like mused about that on, on threads and, um, I don't know what goes viral on threads, but I would say that went viral on threads. And of people. A lot of men specifically had followed and said like, yes, I want that space. I don't subscribe to that. But again, I don't feel like there's an alternative that.

And so what I'm doing there with my podcast, it's just going to be interview styles, uh, podcast, long form interviews, and that one's not going to be parenting based. That's just going to be more. to the individual. so got a comedian, athletes, musicians, things like

[00:44:11] Angela: Nice.

Thanks. 

[00:44:13] Joshua: going to be more of that broad conversational piece. And then we're still goiGive Them Glitterm glitter, which is going to be more of that family building, family life, going through family life element. So those are gonna be dueling podcast, uh, as well.

[00:44:28] Angela: Gotcha. Well, I really love the name, Give Them Glitter. I think beyond like the empowerment of like, yeah, let them, let them be who they are. To me, it's also like, give them the space to be who they are. And sounds like you're giving both of your kids the space to be allies, period, you know? And you're raising LGBTQ allies. And you are LGBTQ allies, so, it's awesome.

We 

[00:44:54] Joshua: appreciate that. And I just have to say, and also listening to your podcast, it is so great what you're doing and the space that you're holding

[00:45:03] Angela: thanks, The conversations that um, especially, you know, from the female perspective, think is so great and, and important. And even just in hearing your story, it's, I think you just create a lot of space within your podcast for people to listen and find themselves in the story and identifiers

[00:45:23] Joshua: And, and then even, if they don't necessarily see themselves in the story, you present it in such a way that they can receive it.

Right? I don't think you're, you're not coming at anyone. You're just holding space for conversation. And I think that's so important. I think it's so powerful and want to applaud you and the work you're doing on this podcast. And I think it's important I think it's meaningful. And I, 

[00:45:49] Angela: thank you,

[00:45:50] Joshua: wait for more and more people to to it. Join your community.

[00:45:56] Angela: thank you, that means so much to me, you have no idea, especially coming from you guys, because. That's very much how I feel about the conversations you're having. So that's really meaningful. especially podcaster to podcaster to, you know, cause we know how hard this is, right?

[00:46:12] Joshua: Yes.

[00:46:12] Angela: so hard. It's so hard.

Where to find Give Them Glitter podcas

[00:46:14] Angela: Well, where can people find you if they want to follow you online or your podcast, where can they find you?

[00:46:21] LesLeigh: We, so at Give Them Glitter, we're at Give Them Glitter. we're at Give Them Glitter podcast. I think at this point you can probably just search Give Them Glitter. But yeah, you could search Give Them Glitter. so we're on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube there as long as well as Spotify and any other place you can get your podcasts. and then my own handles are HerWrittenStyle. I'm on Threads, I'm on Instagram. I think that's it. Yes. Yeah, and then I'm on Instagram and threads as well. It's Joshua with two A's Houston. so I'm there, and then, People can find the links to the other podcast, my interview style podcast on those as well. And I also had to shout out cause she didn't mention it, but I got to shout her out. Leslie does have a sub stack where she does

[00:47:14] Angela: Nice.

[00:47:15] Joshua: very gifted writer, and she offers a unique perspective. So if you get a chance, you're listening, uh, she's a better follower than me. Anyways, like that's the big secret people are figuring out.

[00:47:28] Angela: We'll put the link to your Substack on the show notes for sure. . Thanks for being here, you guys. It's been awesome. Thanks.

[00:47:36] Joshua: us